UAL727NE From United States, joined Dec 2007, 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7515 times:
thanks. I saw a pic of it maybe in an old post on here. Just showed the wing and looked like it was getting a phase done on the plane. Didnt know if it was done yet though.
Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
Flynavy From United States, joined Mar 2002, 3265 posts, RR: 20 Reply 3, posted (6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7506 times:
The 767 winglets aren't even certified yet. Delta is also installing winglets on thie 767-300ERs. There are even studies of installing winglets on 777s - both AA and DL have been approach by APB for providing a 777 for testing.
PhilSquares From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 3564 posts, RR: 53 Reply 4, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7194 times:
Quoting Flynavy (Reply 3): There are even studies of installing winglets on 777s - both AA and DL have been approach by APB for providing a 777 for testing.
Sure about that? The 777 cranked wing was designed specifically to optimize cruise performance thus eliminating the need for winglets.
Flynavy From United States, joined Mar 2002, 3265 posts, RR: 20 Reply 5, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7170 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4): Sure about that? The 777 cranked wing was designed specifically to optimize cruise performance thus eliminating the need for winglets.
I'm 100% sure, yes. APB has approached us directly with this project. Whether or not it goes forward is another story. As fuel costs continue to rise the benefits become more and more appealing.
PurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 246 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7170 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4): Sure about that? The 777 cranked wing was designed specifically to optimize cruise performance thus eliminating the need for winglets.
Not all B777 have the raked wingtips.
PurpleBox.
Next Flights: STN-HAJ-STN(AB), LHR-SIN-MEL(SQ), MEL-HTI(JQ), HTI-SYD(DJ), SYD-NAN(FJ), NAN-AKL-CHC(NZ), CHC-WKA(NZ)
Flynavy From United States, joined Mar 2002, 3265 posts, RR: 20 Reply 7, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7044 times:
Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 6): Not all B777 have the raked wingtips.
No doubt. The project is currently under development by APB. The following article is dated in 2005 but development continues today - as I said with APB approaching DL and AA desiring a test frame.
Quote: And in perhaps its most ambitious step, Aviation Partners Boeing is now planning to develop winglets for Boeing's most advanced current model, the 777 twinjet, which carries up to 368 passengers in a typical three-class configuration.
"We're very excited about it," said Marino about the proposed 777 project. He said his company hopes to define the proposed winglets in the first part of this year and start offering a 777 retrofit package before year's end.
Marino said the proposed Boeing 777 "wing extensions" may not resemble the curved winglets his company developed for 737s. "When we do our development, we try to find the optimum shape for each airplane," Marino said.
EBJ1248650 From United States, joined Jun 2005, 996 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5933 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 8): The 77L and 77W, which are long range aircraft have the cranked/raked wingtips, thus eliminating the need for winglets.
Wouldn't it be just as easy to install the cranked wingtips on older 777s as it would be to install winglets? Both are designed to improve range performance, as I understand it.
Boo22 From United States, joined May 2007, 21 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1970 times:
AA and Boeing are going to test winglets this year on a 767. Boeing is currently conducting the baseline flight tests in southern California on an AA 767. Once they have the baseline data, they are going to install winglets and then do extensive flight testing later this year.
UAL727NE From United States, joined Dec 2007, 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1745 times:
Thanks for all your posts guys!! I didnt know about the 777 getting them too. But yes the older 777's could use the winglets but yea newer ones like the 77L and stuff dont. Cant wait to see the 767 and 777 in them!!
Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
What you, however, don't seem to know about (and in light of such, may want to refrain from throwing stones); is that APB wasn't able to gain access to the patents that BCA-proper has for the raked wingtip design and application... which is the primary reason behind why they cannot retro install it.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
PhilSquares From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 3564 posts, RR: 53 Reply 13, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1434 times:
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 12): What you, however, don't seem to know about (and in light of such, may want to refrain from throwing stones); is that APB wasn't able to gain access to the patents that BCA-proper has for the raked wingtip design and application... which is the primary reason behind why they cannot retro install it.
No stones. Source. APB is Airline Partners Boeing.
Dc10s2hnl From United States, joined Aug 2006, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1304 times:
I woulda thunk the winglets' benefits for long-distance flights would of made the widebody planes an earlier candidate for the winglets as opposed to 737s and 757s... anybody know if anything is going on at Airbus with raked winglets, besides the failed ones on the A320? For example, replacing the 'fences' on the A330 with some?
UAL747 From United States, joined Dec 1999, 5776 posts, RR: 16 Reply 16, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1160 times:
The new 767 winglets will add about 10 feet of wingspan to the 767 and they will be 11 feet tall!! Aviation Partners Boeing has a diagram of it on their website, though the drawings are rather crude and not to scale. In fact, from the side view, it looks like they just put more windows on the 737 and called it a 767.
I think it will bring an all new sexy look to an otherwise very boring plane.
Somewhere I read that the ones for the 777 would be around 13' tall.
On a side note, I did not know that the 757 and 737 basically share the same winglet. They are both 8 feet 2 inches tall.
CX flyboy From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 1999, 5371 posts, RR: 54 Reply 18, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 907 times:
Yeah I remember reading that they were looking into providing winglets for the 777. It surprised me at the time and I cannot imagine what a 777 winglet would look like. Very narrow and skinny I guess!
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 3489 posts, RR: 28 Reply 19, posted (6 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 771 times:
Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 9):
Wouldn't it be just as easy to install the cranked wingtips on older 777s as it would be to install winglets?
Raked wingtips increase outboard wing loading more than winglets. You need to do more structural work to take a raked wingtip, which could kill the economics. It's possible they have enough margin to support a winglet but not a raked wingtip.
Quoting Dc10s2hnl (Reply 14): I woulda thunk the winglets' benefits for long-distance flights would of made the widebody planes an earlier candidate for the winglets as opposed to 737s and 757s...
Winglets only make sense when you're span constrained or margin constrained, and you have a wing with sufficient margin to take them in the first place. Long-distance aircraft tend to be larger and have less span constraint, which is why you see them favoring raked wingtips over winglets.
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